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[bollok]

[bluzoo]

SUBJECT 1: Note reference . "CORSAIR The F4U in World War II and Korea" Author Barrett Tillman.
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I noted two things =
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1) no rps is in the theater or time of the F4U-4's combat operations.
First use on land was the F4U-4B (cannon armed ) 8 June 1945 Okinawa Marine air group 14.
First use off carrier were strikes on midway island 20 June 1945 USS Hancock VBF86.
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2) Some would like this to be in the 1944 plane mix. I disagree with this as 1944 was the year of the F4U-1D corsairs participation in war through the end. To drop the -4 in this time period would disrupt the historic corsair game play and give corsair pilots in the -4 unhistoric advantage.
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-4 should only be allowed on perhaps the very last day of operations.
Perhaps the title of the rps should be renamed Atoll 1944 - 1945.
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[bluzoo]

lytnin: Input on your rps "BLITZ AREANA 1940"
Two comments for now .
1) Mossies did not participate in the battle or exsist. They would have totaly outclassed anything of the day.
In fact the most numerous bomber available was the Blenheim IV in british service. It had performance much like the DO17 in the game.
They also had various medium bombers of varying degrees of ability and limited numbers during this time. In past they have used the B25C as substitued for these having similar defencive firepower, speed and bomb load capability.
Mossies just arnt right for the Battle of Britain.
2) 109F-1 didnt enter combat until febuary of 1941 after battle of britain "24 July 40 to 9 Feb 41 ", almost at end. The109F-4 not in battle.
1/JG26 was first group equiped with 109F-1.
REFERENCE: "JG26 Top Guns of the luftwaffe", By Donald L. Caldwell.
Here is a run down on the Lufftwaffe order of battle Adlertag day Aug 1940. It should be a good reference to aircraft types used by them.
REF: THE LUFTWAFFE DIARIES; APPENDEX 5.
X AIR CORP
KG 26 HE111
KG 30 JU88
I/ZG 76 ME110
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I AIR CORP
KG 1 HE111
KG 76 DO17/JU88
KG77 JU88
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VIII AIR CORP
STG 1 JU87
STG2 JU87
STG 77 JU87
JG 27 ME109
II/LG2 ME109
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II AIR CORP
KG 2 DO17
KG 3 DO17
KG 53 HE111
II/STG 1 JU87
IV ST/LG 1 JU87
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V AIR CORP
KG 51 JU88
KG 54 JU88
KG 55 HE111
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9 AIR DIV
KG 4 HE111/JU88
I/KG 40 JU88/FW200
KAMPFGURPPE 100 HE111
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IV AIR CORP
LG1 JU88
KG 27 HE111
STG 3 JU87
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UNDER FIGHTER COM. JUNCK
JG 2 ME109
JG 53 ME109
ZG2 ME110
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UNDER FIGHTER COM. 2 OSTERKAMP
JG3 ME109
JG 26 ME109
JG 51 ME109
JG 52 ME109
JG 54 ME109
ZG 26 ME110
ZG 76 ME110.
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END
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Under stand before this date there were higher numbers of do17 and less JU88s, after this date less do17/ more JU88s. JU88 was the new replacement bomber and DO17 being phased out over the year.
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Hope this helps.

[Dealer]

It would be nice if the Axis/Luftwaffe had the He177.

It was the only heavy long range bomber the Germans produced in any quantity. Early versions were plauged with engine failure problems, but in later versions it was an excellent fast aircraft with decent armament and a good payload.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbvN04cOPz0
_________________
KEY to FLIGHT
1. Try to fly in the middle of the air
2. The edges of the air can be recognized by the presence of rocks, trees, grass, and interstellar space
3. It is much harder to fly there

MENACING FERRETS FIGHTER SQUADRON
WARBIRDS +CM+

[bollok]

Apologies
I wasn't sure if the early RPS was based on the BOB or the Blitz?
Planeset would be the same for these 2 anyway.

* Warbirds does not model anything like all the plane types of course!
The RAF were using in some form, all these bombers at the start of the war before they adopted the B17 in 1942 (before the USAAF)

Fairey Battle
Bristol Blenheim
Douglas Boston
Lysander
Wellington
Hampden
Whitely
Stirling
Manchester
Halifax

So you would have to subsitute say a B25C and / or B17F to stand in for these RAF bombers in the EARLY WAR RPS
Likewise for the "earlier"Stukas.


If the Battle of Britain Date: 7 September 1940 – 10 May 1941
Or the Blitz Date: 10 July 1940 – 31 October 1940

Early War - Jan 1939 to Dec 1940 In ETO
Luftwaffe
BF109E Early 1939
BF110C Mid 1939
DO17Z Early 1939
HE111H3 Early 1939
JU52 Early 1939
JU88A Early 1940
JU87D Stand in for Earlier Stukas in BOB.

The Royal Air Force / Fleet Air Arm
F4F3 Late 1940 (RAF version was MARLETS)
HURRI 1 Early 1938
P40B Early 1940 (RAF Tomahawk 1 - used mainly for training in ETO)
SPIT1 Late 1938 (Spit 1a & M03 pls.)
C47 Early 1940
B25C Stand in for RAF bombers that dont exist in WB

Major plane development was only from 1941-43 9 (mid war)
and then 1944-45 (late war)
_________________
"The Dogs Bollok"
19 Sqn DUXFORD WING

[panrd]

[adieux]

What are people's feelings about activating the Intel Channel (112) in the WWII arena?

Currently, there seem to be NOE attacks that go totally unopposed because of the nature of the arena. Unless you happen to show up on dar AND someone gives a dar report at that moment, you can get in and out of enemy territory pretty easily. Furthermore, you can linger in the area and strafe down a field with relative impunity, especially if it is not an "active front line" field. If the 112 channel were working, at least the side being attacked would know it, and you would at least see some resistance once an attack was underway.

I don't think having 112 on detracts from the realism element/spirit of the WWII arena. Isn't it reasonable that a base would get word out if they were under attack? As it is, NOE attackers can linger and strafe down a field before the enemy is even aware of the attack taking place.

My suggestion is to see 112 ON in the WWII arena. More fun for all, IMO.

[In a perfect world, 112 would only send intel about friendly fields (perhaps on side channel) and only as long as the radio hut was up, making that hut a primary target if you wanted to keep the attack quiet. But that's programming changes and therefore wishful thinking...]

Any feedback?

<S>
_________________
American Eagles -- Send 'em Down Burning!

"He turned his charger as he spake upon the river shore, And gave his bridle-reins a shake, with, Adieu for evermore, my dear, And Adieu for evermore."

[bluzoo]

Agree, the intel channel 112 should be in the WWII arena. It would enhance game play and not detract from reality.

[GoldenBB]

[thorwb]

i quite agree the problem is the neon signs not the id range ...

the thing is that ...

yes you can see and i.d. a/c at a mile, or more even ...

however you can also misidentify planes you are shooting at less than 200 yards away ...

and easily totally miss others that shoot you down point blank ...

soooo

how do you model for both both possibilities ???

please look into getting rid of the neon ...

tks

and please don't ask for proof or examples ...

[finn]

I think we have two problems. One, we need icons to allow us to 'see' other aircraft at something resembling realistic ranges. It's rediculous that I can spot the golf cart we tow gliders with from 8000 feet above ground but not see another airplane in warbirds at d30 or a tank from 2k above it. Two, the icon system as it exists gives us too much information. When you have an icon above the plane that shows range, it can be used to estimate closure, making tactics easier and unnaturally precise (e.g. perfectly timed lead turns) and even allow accurate shots at planes below your nose. So, I suggest two things and either or both would be an improvement imho.
ONE provide ONLY a non-neon word 'bogey' below the dot/plane shape at d30- no information about type or friend/foe status. . At d 15 change that to plane type- and in non historic arenas change the icon colour to match the country. Never provide any range information at all.
TWO: Scale up the size of the planes (and vehicles on the ground) - make them double scale. This would compensate for the limited field of view of our monitors and make it a bit more realistic in terms of distance required to ID a plane.
It might even be that if the planes are scaled up to a more realistic appearance size in the game that we could get rid of all icons in the more advanced arenas. That would be ideal.

finn

[-Wiley]

This 'scaling up' you speak of, finn. Are you suggesting doubling the size of the planes across the board, even when you get into gunnery range as well?

IMO that'd be a helluva game changer. I agree with your icon ideas though. For the historical arenas, all I'd ask would be a dot that never gets any smaller than the dot as it shows up to me at around I think D30 or so. It looks like it's about 6x6 pixels on my screen, and while it can be missable, it is relatively possible to see for me. The single pixel thing just messes me up too badly.

Wiley.

[finn]

Yup, scale them up. Due to the limited Field of View available, the game creates a minimus effect that makes actual scale look tiny. Believe me, planes look a lot bigger in real life from the cockpits in which I fly.
But I'd argue for scaling up instead of icons- except where some sort of icon is needed to distinguish friend from foe- that is, in arenas where all sides have all planes. But even then, if the wingtips and noses of planes were done in country colours we could dispense with icons. Gun sight designs would need some changes to make sure that they reflected the scale of the airplanes. (e.g. wingspan fills sight=200yards etc.)

I think it would be fun.

finn

[Dealer]

I was wondering why C47s and JU52s are only available from large fields in the current planeset. If one side has all their large fields closed, you almost might as well reset the arena. It's all but impossible and terribly time consuming to drive troops to some fields.

Might be different if the fields were somewhat closer or there were more posts and/or it didn't take one bomb to close them.
_________________
KEY to FLIGHT
1. Try to fly in the middle of the air
2. The edges of the air can be recognized by the presence of rocks, trees, grass, and interstellar space
3. It is much harder to fly there

MENACING FERRETS FIGHTER SQUADRON
WARBIRDS +CM+

[Dealer]

I was sitting at my desk thinking back to when the WWII arena was the "main" arena and why interest in flying there waned.

As for a RPS, I always kinda liked the old RPS we used to use in the WW2 arena back when it used all the planes in the set (including the one day of Me262s).

I seem to remember that when we started mucking around with the plane sets, that was right about the same time many of the old sticks started opting out for other arenas and even other sims. Maybe a coincidence, I don't know.

To me personally, the axis vs allies is enough to satisfy my needs. I don't mind Zero's in the ETO or 109s in the PTO, mainly because (from first hand experience), the theater based plane set hits the axis squads harder than the allies. The hardcore Luftwaffe and INJ squads have to wait 3 weeks to fly their favorite planes, so they try to fly unfamiliar aircraft, get frustrated, and end up going somewhere else to get their fix. It's not as pronounced on the allied side of the map, but there were some Navy squads who almost always flew the blue planes.

If theatre based plane sets are to be used, I think an interesting match up in the PTO would be a carrier based engagement type senerio. The Malta map (although not "historic") with the island and mostly coastal bases (perhaps disable the inland fields on the main land altogether and enable several CV groups) and vast ocean terrain would make for some fast paced, interesting gameplay.

As for the ETO, to emulate the "blitzkrieg" attacks and massive armor battles that took place in the ETO, I wouldn't mind seeing drones enabled for GVs. Even if those drones did nothing more than mimic the actions of the host, just changing the formations and spacing would make it a little more interesting for ground ops. As it is now, if the defender is hit, all he has to do is respawn over and over with no penality whilst the attacker, that just spent 20 to 30 minutes driving from one base to another, once hit is a sitting duck.

Another feature that would be interesting is the ability to call in arty strikes from GV's. from all posts, fields, and towns. The defender could call in a strike to thwart a armor push, while the attacker could use it to enhace his attack. Maybe even allow a GV to call in arty no matter where they were to simulate the presence of support troops/artillery that no doubt would follow an armored column. It may not be within the game script cababilities, but perhaps one of the drones could be an opel truck, that once taken out would silence the arty, but could also be used by the attacker to send troops in once the field was closed.

Someone else suggested that the intel channel should be enabled, and I agree that would be a very realistic option. After all, I'm sure that someone would get on the radio when bombs started falling or tanks started rolling in on a field, and announce that they were under attack. I don't know if it's possible, but maybe if the radar tower was knocked out, perhaps that channel could be silenced, making the radar tower a priority target, thus adding another dimention field capture strat.

Just throwing out some ideas and would like to hear other what other people that fly in the WWII arena think or the "wish list" of community members that would fly there more often if it was set up a little different.

Having played Warbirds off and on for over 10 years, I know you can never satisfy everyone, so you have to try to satisfy the majority. I would like to see the WWII arena repopulate, and we have seen a slight surge in numbers on our squad nite, but I fear that we may lose them again, so I am willing to trade off a little of the hardcore historical realism. I get my historical fix every Sunday in the S3. A little trade-off during the rest of the week is acceptable to me.

Just my opinion
_________________
KEY to FLIGHT
1. Try to fly in the middle of the air
2. The edges of the air can be recognized by the presence of rocks, trees, grass, and interstellar space
3. It is much harder to fly there

MENACING FERRETS FIGHTER SQUADRON
WARBIRDS +CM+